Ryan and Chris on the Stow Away Series
On a very busy day at CMBC — busier than a normal Monday, in fact — we had a chance to wrangle both Hank and Ryan in one room at the same time (for the most part) to talk about the upcoming Stow Away Series release.
It should be noted that during the discussion Ryan munched on some carrots and peanut butter, while Hank searched through copious emails and notes to find out exactly when the original pitch was delivered.
Why did we do this beer?
HANK: Well, [Head Brewer Brian Hink]’s been pushing us. Since he started, he’s always wanted to brew sour beers. I’m very interested in fermentations in general. Just different types of fermentation: not just beer, but vinegar, and lactic acid, and acetic acid. So, I’ve always wanted to do it, but we never had the time nor the capacity. Eventually, he wore away enough and we decided to go for it. I ordered a pitch called Bug County — East Coast Yeast Company.
RYAN: (entering, as Chris is pulled away by Nakeya) Hey, what’s up, man?
Yeah, we’re, uh… talking about where the idea came from, basically.
RYAN: For the Stow Away Series?
Yeah, for the Stow Away Series.
RYAN: Well, we always wanted to do something that was really different and fun. So, the whole genesis of of Cape May Brewery in general is to bring this really great craft beer that we see — especially out West — to New Jersey. So, doing that isn’t limited to just making craft beer. The interesting thing is exploring flavors. Because, ultimately, what are we? “We’re a beverage company,” is the least sexy way to say it. Carbonated alcoholic beverage. And let’s not just stick with the basic flavors anymore. Let’s see what different flavor compound possibilities exist.
So why did we want to do the Stow Away Series in particular?
RYAN: We wanted to do start doing some barrel-aging work with red wine barrels. A lot of breweries do stuff with bourbon barrels, which is great and all, but not too many people are working with red wine barrels. So, we wanted to explore that a little further.
HANK: (returning) East Coast Yeast. And they have a blend of bacteria and wild yeast called Bug County. Sounds delicious, doesn’t it?
Uh, yeah, it does…
Why did we choose to use 750ml bottles?
RYAN: Because we’re doing a bottle-conditioned beer.
HANK: Yeah, you can bottle-condition in any bottle, really, but those are definitely heartier, they can handle the pressure more. Also, it’s a specialty product. I think I related it more to a wine, and it’s priced like a wine, so it’s more of a specialty product with specialty packaging. It’s just premium.
Have we done 750s before?
RYAN: Once, a long time ago.
What did we bottle?
RYAN: Sawyer’s Swap and Devil’s Reach. We had to do it manually. We had a little hand-filler.
HANK: Oh, my gosh, yeah. That was our first bottling run.
RYAN: (With a mouth full of peanut butter) Mm hm.
How’d they go down? How were they received by the customers?
RYAN: It was received really well, but it was just grueling in terms of being efficient.
Have we gotten any more efficient this time around?
RYAN: (Peanut butter) Mm hm.
RYAN: We got a really nice filler. The whole production staff knows what they’re doing.
They didn’t before?
RYAN: It was me and Hank. I’d say no.
HANK: Say no more. (Finding it on his computer) December 16, 2013, is when Bug County shipped to us, the secondary fermentation run. It was a little bit of a while ago.
So, why did we want to do barrel-aging work? You said no one’s really doing it, so why did we want to do it?
HANK: Like I said before, I’m really interested in fermentations other than standard fermentations. And barrel’s a whole ‘nother level, because not only are we trying to get these other bacteria and yeast to ferment in this beer, but then the barrel itself is letting a little bit of oxygen in, which just changes up everything going on, the chemistry going on in this barrel. It’s just a very unique product. It’s something you can’t replicate, you can’t rush. Some wineries will use oak spirals to speed the process, but they’re looking for oak flavor. We’re looking for so much more than oak flavor. That aged flavor is just so unique. Plus the other fermentations going on over the two-and-a-half year period.
What does that do for the CMBC, getting those red wine barrels in?
HANK: Costs a lot of money. Money you’re not going to see back for two-and-a-half years.
RYAN: Mm hm. (The peanut butter, again)
You think it’ll pay off?
RYAN: I think it’s a great opportunity to show who we are. That we’re not just trying to make the cheapest beer possible. That we’re trying to make good shit.
HANK: That we’re more than IPAs, ales, lagers. As brewers we want to be creative. That’s who we are at heart, right? We started this company as brewers and we want to have fun designing beers, and we want to let the beers do whatever the hell they’re going to do. The scary part about a barrel: you can put beer in a barrel, you never know what you’re going to get. You could get vinegar. You could a really tasty sour beer. You could get nothing.
And that’s my next question. We’re taking a lot of the process out of our hands and handing it over to the customer in terms of cellaring and aging the beer. How do you guys feel about that? What should the customer expect?
RYAN: Well, we’re giving it to them with instructions.
HANK: In my opinion, I’m gonna drink it now. I can’t sit on beer like that.
HANK: I have no patience. I do not have a cellar. I have zero patience to cellar beer. The only beers I’ve cellared were accidental.
You forgot about them?
HANK: Forgot about ’em. And the beer’s perfect to drink right now. You can cellar them and see what happens, and then you become part of the experiment. Because we’ve never cellared this beer before, we’ve never brewed this beer before, so you’re part of this. The consumer is PART OF THIS. If you go ahead and age it for two years, you’re gonna come back and tell us it was better… hopefully not worse… the same… who knows? So, I think that’s the pretty unique part of it. We’re all just learning together. The point where it gets into the consumer’s hands? Who knows. As an engineer, I hate leaving things up to chance. That’s probably one reason it took us so long to get into the barrel. I’d say Brian and the brewers are more like artists, but I have an engineering background, I like everything to be very stark. I like to be in control of the process. And when you throw beer in a barrel? You have zero control over what’s going on.
So, why are you guys excited for it?
RYAN: (Who had been answering emails while Hank spoke rather eloquently on risk) Why am I excited for White Caps?
Sure, we can talk about that if you want.
RYAN: I mean, The Keel? Because it’s unlike anything we’ve ever done. (Turning to Hank) You gotta do sound bites, Hank.
HANK: Make sure you tell everyone he was holding a pen in his hand while he said that.
What other barrel-aged beers have you guys tried? Have you gotten any inspiration from any of them?
HANK: We’ve visited so many breweries.
RYAN: The brewery in California.
HANK: Crooked Stave.
RYAN: B-R-U-E-R-Y. Crooked Stave.
HANK: Uh, Cascade? Barrel House? Is that’s what it’s called?
RYAN: Yep, Cascade Barrel House.
HANK: That was our big trip to the West Coast.
That was all in California?
HANK: Cascade Barrel House is Seattle? No, Portland. There’s a bunch of little Belgian breweries — well, they seem little. There’s a good amount out there, now.
Any of them stand out to you as saying, yeah, this one? Or did you take elements from a lot of them?
HANK: We didn’t know where to start. There’s so little documentation out there on how to do this, and when we started this two years ago, there was even less. A lot less than there is now. Now, Brian will tell you all about The Sour Hour, a podcast he listens to, and there’s books you can read. When we started, it was almost a mystery. You know, we’re getting some of the bacteria from this one company, but when to age it? How long to age it? It was all a mystery. This brewer says this, and this brewer says that, and they were completely different. The Keel was just a crap shoot that really turned out well. We tried to control it as much as possible, but it just turned out incredibly well.
The Keel will be released Saturday, June 25, at the Brewtique. For more information, call (609) 849-9933 or email firstname.lastname@example.org